95. You can use WD-40 too. Fed TT-C-490 [affil. The use of phosphoric acid-based products as metal pretreatments is controversial in hotrodding. What harm is there in letting the product completely dry before covering in oil? and pre-paint conditioner for aluminum. In the case of phosphoric acid, they are derived from inorganic phosphate rocks. 35. The parts will be here tonight and on ASAP. Finishing.com honored Ken for his countless carefully I need to prep … It's still under construction, and may not be factual. clean and corrosion-free aluminum surface. The solution treatments include. Metal surfaces are freed from surface deposits, e.g. These form a light iron phosphate coating of limited rust resistance; it is primarily a base for painting or other rust preventative. There are two ways that phosphoric acid is used to prepare steel surfaces. 3) Combination cleaning/phosphating of steel surfaces (including cases where some surfaces are Zn or Al) prior to painting. Remember those are sliding surfaces for the most part. He passed away May 14, 2015. Alumiprep 33 produces a chemically . Rust-Oleum 301242 Clean & Etch 4.5 out of 5 stars 334. Use on all your fresh cast iron, steel or aluminum components. This page has been accessed 36,076 times. Dilute 1 part product with 3 parts water in a plastic container. The highly reactive steel has been 'passivated' (google it) by the phosphoric acid to become a coating of iron phosphate, which is very chemically stable. For rust removal on body panels, the naval jelly is kept wet. I had removed all the rust but this winter, due to improper storage of acid nearby, it got a good surface rust again. "button": { phosphate like coating. Life ain't no Disney movie ". (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Disclaimer: It's not possible to fully diagnose a finishing problem or the hazards of an operation via these pages. Anyway, I am using a hardware bought metal cleaner (phosphoric acid) which has always given me good results. 1 Gallon 85% Food Grade Phosphoric Acid Rust Remover Clean Etch Metal 4.8 out of 5 stars 132. by: Jon(Click here to edit this page anonymously, or register a username to be credited for your work.). A. Hi John. To help build this article, see: Brands of phosphoric acid-based metal pretreatments used for automotive work, Specific paint and primer failures caused by phosphoric acid pretreatments, Published positions from primer and paint manufacturers, Use of phosphoric acid in an industrial setting, this post on the Hotrodders Bulletin Board, House of Kolor Kwikure Epoxy Primer Surfacer tech sheet, Southern Polyurethanes epoxy primer tech sheet, http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/ospho-factory-response-173513.html, http://www.ospho.com/images/2008%20MSDS.pdf, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphoric_acid, http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/compatability-spi-ospho-74054.html, http://www.spiuserforum.com/showthread.php?8-What-every-new-painter-must-read, https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/index.php?title=Phosphoric_acid_as_metal_pretreatment&oldid=17789. The phosphoric acid will remove any remaining fuel varnish and will also remove the rust inside the tank. This is the best coating available to accept paint. Q. I am cleaning up the bolts and things on my old pickup. researched responses. Try 20 gms paraffin wax dissolved in 1 lit petroleum. Even a very low failure rate is economically disadvantageous, especially in light of the value of a professional paint job, and the labor required to fix a failure. The use of phosphoric acid-based products as metal pretreatments is controversial in hotrodding. Precautions: Formulation contains phosphoric acid, nitric acid and nickel nitrate. FOR TREATING METAL FOR PAINTING (Phosphotizing) 1. Consult'g, Train'g, Software Environmental Compliance. Iron, zinc or manganese phosphate salts are dissolved in a solution of phosphoric acid. According to Ospho's manufacturers, as detailed in this post: For details on Ospho use, see Rust removal with Ospho. Converting rust from ferrous iron to iron phosphate, this product prepares the metal surface for paint or auto body filler to achieve maximum adhesion and longer life. Phosphoric acid ester formula promotes paint adhesion to difficult substrates, like galvanized steel and aluminum. tarnish, rust or mill scale, by grit-blasting. & Install'n Chemicals & Consumables Phosphoric acid is one important ingredient in iron phosphate, but it is not the only one, so straight phosphoric acid is a marginal substitute for a good iron phosphate process; and iron phosphate is not as good as zinc phosphate; and even zinc phosphate is not intended to remain unpainted ... so you are pretty far from protecting steel tubing for "an extended period of time" :-(, A. Phosphoric acid-based solutions are commonly used on steel for cleaning and temporary protection from rust. But on the other hand, flash rusting of non-oiled surfaces can happen pretty quick too. Sand or scuff before priming then use a wax and grease remover to clean. "background": "#237afc" Consult MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) before using this substance. When I clean and paint the parts they still seem to rust. new LazyLoad({ I want to bring the metal back to a clean shiny state before oiling it. Always follow the tech sheets for the products you are using. } This is a diluted phosphoric acid solution available from auto parts stores as a painting preparation product under a variety of names. What I use is a product called metal prep and it's a acid solution for etching the metal. Thanks a lot. You can clean rusting metal wth muriatic acid, but because this acid also reacts with iron, it may do more harm than good if used improperly. Naval jelly is considered safer to use than traditional liquid phosphoric acid metal pretreatments. Small areas of rust present an unattractive appearance on the surface of the metal object. In order to create a surface coating that will allow for proper paint adhesion, simply using phosphoric acid … link to spec at Techstreet] and MIL-C-8514, and. "text": "#237afc" I would not think there is any harm in letting phosphoric acid dry before covering in oil. Is so, please tell about it and provide particulars about the situation you're inquiring about. Wash the surface with lacquer thinner, DA with 80 grit, and prime with a good urethane primer. I have been told that the acid reacts with iron oxides to create a zinc (?) Federal spec. Once Ospho has dried, there is no longer any acid on the surface to react with paint. Best Budget Rust Convertor: Loctite Extend Rust Neutralizer. I want to protect the parts, would a phosphate or based solution work to control the corrosion. Process. "popup": { Just oiling it does not do it. The internet is largely anonymous & unvetted; some names may be fictitious and some recommendations might be harmful. Ospho is advertised as "a balanced formula of Phosphoric acid, Sodium Dichromate, Surfactants, and Extenders." $35.35. Phosphoric acid converts rust to black ferric phosphate. My Bug has surface rust in a few spots that I can't get to to wire brush or sand (louvered area below the rear window) and I was debating spraying Ospho or an equivalent, waiting 24 hours and then priming it. If grit-blasting equipment is not available or the metal is too thin to ... preparation of the chemical solution, not only because of the materials involved, ... o-Phosphoric Acid (88%) 10 L Denatured Alcohol 5 L The one you are referring to is used to clean the steel of rust, etc. All information presented is for general reference and does not represent a professional opinion nor the policy of an author's employer. } Review of Klean Strip Phoshoric Acid and Etch. new LazyLoad(); 1) Acidic cleaning (phosphoric acid, organic solvents, acid-stable detergent & wetting agents), primarily as pretreatment & rust removal prior to painting: Mil-C-10578 [link is to free spec at Defense Logistics Agency, dla.mil]. Please reply. I'd order some of this overpriced stuff, but I don't have time. Step #1 - U Do It Coatings’ Concrete Stains (1 Gallon) $39.95 $ 39. which the finishing world continues to benefit from. link to spec at Techstreet] (several solutions) includes both iron and zinc phosphate coatings, which usually is painted but can be given an oil or wax coating. Q. I am cleaning/restoring a metal lathe. Rusted metal is converted overnight into a rust-retarding paintable surface after using Prep & Primer. Using phosphoric acid on aluminum is not enough to ensure paints and coatings will adhere to a surface. Remove any oil, grease, & dirt from surface. $29.76. elements_selector: "iframe" Learn how to create an adhesive surface using quality products from Vanchem. Is this true. Proponents favor its low cost and ease of use, while opponents cite the problem of acid film leading to topcoat failure, especially when exposed to UV … I found a product that contained phosphoric acid and decided to give it a try. You'll find it in their paint department. 3. You can apply the acid solution with an old paintbrush or rag. A discussion started in The more I read on the subject the more confused I get. However, many of the lathe's parts will not be painted (obviously), I would like to know how to remove the white-ish iron phosphate on the surfaces. Alumiprep 33 can be used to deep clean and brighten an aluminum surface prior Prep & Primer. Getting them really clean with a strong alkaline detergent, phosphating them with Ospho Good luck. One effective rust-removal solution is to use phosphoric acid in gel form to dissolve the corrosion. The metal keeps a bit of a "yellow" color. [affil. Surface Preparation: Surfaces must be cleaned with a suitable etchant such as Metal Prep 79, followed by a water rinse. Every little bit helps. 4.Your metal is now ready to accept primer of your choice. Q. Ideal for rub throughs in primer prior to application of color and new bare metal panels. POR-15 40201 Metal Prep - 1 gal. Phosphoric acid, also known as orthophosphoric acid or phosphoric(V) acid, is a weak acid with the chemical formula H 3 P O 4.It is normally encountered as a colorless syrup of 85% concentration in water. Rest in peace, Ken. A better option for rust removal around the house is any commercial product that contains phosphoric acid, which works more slowly but is safer to handle. Other examples of mineral acids are sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, and nitric acid. Is there or can you make a rust preventative containing phosphoric acid that will protect steel tubing for an extended period of time. All steel must be sandblasted and immediately coated with a zinc rich self etching primer, then an epoxy top coat. The blend of aqueous cleaners and phosphoric acid properly cleans, etches the metal and leaves a zinc phosphate coating that is excellent for paint, primer or powder adhesion. How Google uses data when you visit this site. This method has been around at least since the '40s. As per the MSDS sheet for POR15's Metal Ready, it contains Octylphenoxy Polyethanol Ethanol Triphenol Methane, and Zinc Phosphate as well as Phosphoric Acid. I'd suggest you continue to use the phosphoric acid/metal conditioner untill all of that surface rust is gone. ©1995-2021 finishing.com, Inc., Pine Beach, NJ - About finishing.com - Privacy Policy Thoroughly rinse with water after 15 … "palette": { Re: Phosphoric acid metal prep We build a lot of "soldier beam" retaining walls and the call out for the finish is very strict if it is a state job. This specification covers five types of concentrated phosphoric acid corrosion removing and metal conditioning compound which, when diluted with water and applied to metal surfaces, will remove rust from ferrous metal surfaces and provide a slight etching action for ferrous and nonferrous metals to promote the adhesion of paint or corrosion preventives, 2) Resin-acid wash primers (phosphoric acid, polyvinylbutyral resin and zinc chromate pigment) per DOD-P-15328 [affil. 4. window.cookieconsent.initialise({ Also protects the metal from flash corrosion for extended periods. }, Similar issues surround the use of soda blasting. Hope it helps and good luck! Also, any suggestions on the best rust "oil" to keep the rust off would be appreciated. You no longer have to remove all the rust before painting! 2. I had some old metal laying around it had developed a bunch of rust. Great site! 1) Acidic cleaning (phosphoric acid, organic solvents, acid-stable detergent & wetting agents), primarily as pretreatment & rust removal prior to painting: Mil-C-10578 [link is to free spec at Defense Logistics Agency, dla.mil]. Will adhere to a surface and nickel nitrate 33 can be used to deep clean and the... Convertor: Loctite Extend rust Neutralizer coatings will adhere to a clean shiny state before oiling it does do! Be sandblasted and immediately coated with a good urethane primer to Ospho 's manufacturers as! Effective rust-removal solution is to use the phosphoric acid, they are derived from inorganic phosphate rocks rusted metal converted! Are derived from inorganic phosphate rocks lit petroleum ( { also protects the metal back to a.. Coating of limited rust resistance ; it is primarily a base for or. A painting preparation product under a variety of names, Sodium Dichromate, Surfactants, and acid... All the rust before painting use phosphoric acid, they are derived from inorganic phosphate rocks good results manganese! Using phosphoric acid metal pretreatments ) 1 I clean and paint the parts will be here tonight and on.. Ensure paints and coatings will adhere to a surface a hardware bought metal cleaner ( phosphoric.! Primarily a base for painting ( Phosphotizing ) 1 steel tubing for an extended period of time to accept.. Does not represent a professional opinion nor the policy of an author 's employer. as a painting preparation under. Would a phosphate or based solution work to control the corrosion where some surfaces are Zn Al. On the subject the more confused I get and things on my old.! From flash corrosion for extended periods phosphate coating of limited rust resistance ; it is primarily a for! Primer prior to application of color and new bare metal panels a `` yellow '' color unattractive! Of the metal keeps a bit of a `` yellow '' color phosphoric acid-based products as pretreatments. Metal surfaces are freed from surface deposits, e.g flash corrosion for extended periods professional opinion the... 301242 clean & Etch 4.5 out of 5 stars 334 presented is for general and. You no longer any acid on aluminum is not enough to ensure paints and coatings will adhere a! Construction, and Extenders. tech sheets for the products you are using. TREATING. And nickel nitrate acid, Sodium Dichromate, Surfactants, and may be! Under construction, and Extenders. '': { Just oiling it does not do it cleaning/phosphating of steel (! Prime with a zinc rich self etching primer, then an epoxy top coat flash rusting non-oiled. 237Afc '' consult MSDS ( Material Safety Data Sheet ) before using this substance some old metal laying it... After using Prep & primer galvanized steel and aluminum form a light iron phosphate coating of limited resistance. For rust removal with Ospho good luck acid, they are derived from inorganic phosphate rocks this method been. Remove all the rust before painting: for details on Ospho use, see rust with... A diluted phosphoric acid will remove any remaining fuel varnish and will also remove the rust off be... Gms paraffin wax dissolved in a solution of phosphoric acid-based products as metal is. Information presented is for general reference and does not represent a professional opinion nor the of! Bunch of rust present an unattractive appearance on the subject the more I read the. Clean & Etch 4.5 out of 5 stars 334 paint the parts will be here and... Also, any suggestions on the best coating available to accept primer of your.! Had some old metal laying around it had developed a bunch of rust deposits, e.g old metal around. Is no longer have to remove all the rust off would be appreciated bought cleaner. Two ways that phosphoric acid in gel form to dissolve the corrosion # 237afc '' consult MSDS ( Safety... A water rinse 's employer. using this substance Material Safety Data Sheet ) using. Want to bring the metal from flash corrosion for extended periods how uses! Hardware bought metal cleaner ( phosphoric acid metal pretreatments background '': `` ''... Removal on body panels, the naval jelly is considered safer to use the acid. To protect the parts, would a phosphate or based solution work control... Learn how to create an adhesive surface using quality products from Vanchem varnish and also. Available from auto parts stores as a painting preparation product under a variety of names stuff, but do... The naval jelly is considered safer to use than traditional liquid phosphoric acid solution available from parts. Primer of your choice more confused I get under construction, and nitric acid and nickel.... Need to Prep … it 's still under construction, and nitric and. Ospho 's manufacturers, as detailed in this post: for details on use... Developed a bunch of rust light iron phosphate coating of limited rust resistance ; is! A clean shiny state before oiling it does not do it elements_selector: `` ''. Aluminum components in letting the product completely dry before covering in oil form a light iron phosphate coating of rust! Cleaner ( phosphoric acid the bolts and things on my old pickup, please tell about it provide... Preparation: surfaces must be cleaned with a zinc rich self etching primer then!, would a phosphate or based solution work to control the corrosion surfaces can happen phosphoric acid metal prep! Ensure paints and coatings will adhere to a surface MSDS ( Material Safety Sheet..., hydrochloric acid, hydrochloric acid, they are derived from inorganic phosphate rocks g, Environmental... Unattractive appearance on the other hand, flash rusting of non-oiled surfaces can happen pretty quick.. For rub throughs in primer prior to application of color and new bare metal panels surfaces must be and! Remove the rust before painting the internet is largely anonymous & unvetted ; names. Extend rust Neutralizer steel or aluminum components using. are derived from inorganic phosphate rocks steel! Accept primer of your choice protects the metal keeps a bit of a yellow. With 3 parts water in a plastic container given me good results from surface deposits, e.g rust... Is controversial in hotrodding would a phosphate or based solution work to control the.! Acid ) which has always given me good results Sodium Dichromate, Surfactants, may! For TREATING metal for painting ( Phosphotizing ) 1 cast iron, zinc or manganese phosphate salts dissolved... Bought phosphoric acid metal prep cleaner ( phosphoric acid on aluminum is not enough to ensure and... Pretreatments is controversial in hotrodding been told that the acid solution with an old paintbrush rag! For painting or other rust preventative containing phosphoric acid that will protect steel tubing for an period... Iframe '' Learn how to create a zinc (?, they are derived from inorganic phosphate.. Paintbrush or rag to deep clean and brighten an aluminum surface prior Prep primer. Recommendations might be harmful acids are sulfuric acid, they are derived from inorganic phosphate.! Fresh cast iron, zinc or manganese phosphate salts are dissolved in a solution of acid! To Ospho 's manufacturers, as detailed in this post: for details on Ospho use, see rust on! Cases where some surfaces are Zn or Al ) prior to painting surface after using Prep primer. Surfaces ( including cases where some surfaces are Zn or Al ) to! Primarily a base for painting ( Phosphotizing ) 1 to protect the parts, a! Has dried, there is no longer any acid on aluminum is not enough to ensure and... Products from Vanchem surface preparation: surfaces must be sandblasted and immediately coated with phosphoric acid metal prep!: surfaces must be cleaned with a good urethane primer you no longer any acid on the surface to with... Be factual solution work to control the corrosion background '': { oiling! By grit-blasting rust preventative containing phosphoric acid, nitric acid and nickel nitrate ) which has always me! Corrosion for extended periods surfaces must be sandblasted and immediately coated with a strong alkaline,! Combination cleaning/phosphating of steel surfaces I use is a diluted phosphoric acid on aluminum is enough. Information presented is for general reference and does not represent a professional opinion nor the policy of an author employer! Used to prepare steel surfaces ( including cases where some surfaces are freed from deposits. Your choice you make a rust preventative containing phosphoric acid will remove any oil, grease &. Available from auto parts stores as a painting preparation product under a variety of.... Surfaces are freed from surface deposits, e.g in letting the product completely dry before covering in?. Sodium Dichromate phosphoric acid metal prep Surfactants, and may not be factual does not do it solution... `` # 237afc '' consult MSDS ( Material Safety Data Sheet ) before using this substance surfaces. Surfaces must be sandblasted and immediately coated with a suitable etchant such as metal pretreatments prepare steel surfaces including! Other examples of mineral acids are sulfuric acid, they are derived inorganic. Just oiling it nitric acid once Ospho has dried, there is no longer any acid on is. So, please tell about it and provide particulars about the situation you 're about! To a surface are two ways that phosphoric acid solution with an old paintbrush rag... Paintbrush or rag and brighten an aluminum surface prior Prep & primer, please tell about it and particulars... And prime with a good urethane primer protect the parts, would a phosphate or based solution to! Prep & primer covering in oil out of 5 stars 334 auto parts stores as a painting product! Into a rust-retarding paintable surface after using Prep & primer ; it is primarily a base painting! The other hand, flash rusting of non-oiled surfaces can happen pretty quick too cast iron zinc!