@richard96: He MIGHT succeed. This doesn't prevent him from regaining the power he lost which he is confirmed to have done as early as ANH. Instead, he toyed with a soldier blaster to hit Maul. As you know, Force user's have enhanced processing speed when compared to your average being, this is especially the case for highly powerful Force users like Starkiller. "The defeat of such an opponent should have cooled his mind, sharpened his focus.". A normal human would be at Maul's mercy. There were no circumstances, only Maul’s skill against Vader’s. Accept it. Deal with it. @richard96: You cannot obviously allow Vader to be sub-TPM Maul, even if it is true. How maul was caught off guard? Impressive.” And he remembered: SK runs through his memories, latching onto their discussion at the start of the game (which in itself took around 5-10 seconds). He was the only one left—of the many Darth Vader had created to do his bidding. This is in no way mentioned or stated. Not sure what you meant by this but the fact that Starkiller is running on empty, it will automatically lowers his fighting ability, something that's been brought up many times in Legends continuity. Which makes sense considering a much more exhausted Starkiller was still capable of defeating a cautious Vader: He knew the measure of his former apprentice now. With a roar he forced his way through a wall of Rebels, slashing and hacking as he went. An in universe opinion from Force user's who are aware of their own power and that of the Maul dopplegangers and are able to directly sense Vader's. Get the fuck out of here. The acolytes believed this so fervently that they actively prevented the Maul doppelganger from attacking Vader until they had acquired his agreement to not use the Force to destroy them and the doppelganger. All in all, these interactions take around 30 seconds at least. The Maul Vader faces in Ressurection being a doppelganger though is simply something that's confirmed by Chee: Who knows, it could have been a vision like Luke confronting Vader on Dagobah or just some sort of Sith illusion. Also, you have yet to prove that the blows the Maul doppelganger landed on Vader would have been debilitating if not for the armor. He met a doppelganger of Maul, the creators of said doppelganger admitting that it was very possible that he was capable of destroying both themselves and the doppelganger with the Force, making efforts to convince Vader NOT to beforehand, even going so far as to stop the doppelganger from engaging Vader before they'd acquired Vader's agreement.”. The assassin apprentices, physical vs force strength. Because it will piss off Starkiller and psychologically unbalance him. You care only about Galen when SW is involved, so you heartily defending Galen’s best foe from being sub-TPM Maul is quite predictable. No person not engaged in heavy bias for or against a character or era will ever buy such an argument so you and all the other "debaters" on your inactive forum can try to push that view till you're blue in the face. “Show me.” Numerous pairs of eyes lit up in the shadows. - Star Wars Battlegrounds: Clone Campaigns: Darth Maul Databank. Luke is Vader’s hope. Neither me. While Starkiller is noted to be focused on Vader, I highly doubt this means to the exclusion of all else, especially when he's been encountering traps throughout his journey through the Kaminoan facility. the comic’s events never happened in the “official continuity” (of Legends), but he didn’t retconn his usability in debates. With a harsh rending sound, the metal wall burst outward, letting in the fury of the storm. You need to be logged in to post comments.. He's jumping from platform to platform, Mario style. It is explicitly conceived to have a Vader vs Maul brawl and see who is stronger. He raised both blades to strike him down. Also, Vader was about to get killed against Maul. Lmfao, you take this stuff way too seriously dude. "It's not quite the real Darth Maul. That said, I'm unsure who's more powerful for now. KMC Forums > Star Wars > Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe > Star Wars Versus Forum > Starkiller vs Maul. Maulkiller was created by combining genetic material from the1 Dathomirian2 Zabrak Sith apprentice Darth Maul and the deceased Human Galen Marek. 4. Your arbitrary interpretation is totally disingenuous and confirmed by nothing. Hence, if we believe the doppleganger Vader fought possesses the same power as Maul, he gets atomized ( not that any of this is relevant since it's non canon... ). We have no proof of that. :P. The author literally state that the Prophets believed Vader could dominate them with the Force... Why? That doesn't mean however he still couldn't become more powerful. Nothing in this quote makes him sub ROTS Anakin, even. My point was that both Vader and the acolytes are portrayed as believing that there is a power gap that exists between them that would allow Vader to circumvent the acolytes plan for Vader the doppelganger to duel. Anakin would have been able to do it if he hadn’t been debilitated and now he’s half machine and half man, so he’s lost a lot of the power of the Force, and he’s lost a lot of his ability to be more powerful then the Emperor. Also, while I'm not interested in whether or not the doppelganger possesses the abilities of the actual Maul, since it's a matter of such interest to you, you should be made aware that Leeland Chee himself has stated that the Maul we see in the comic is not the real one and that "nothing's been determined as to what we are actually seeing.". People can come to their own conclusions on what THEY find reasonable based on the evidence we've both provided. This comes from Ferus Olin who had fought alongside Obi Wan a few years after RotS. You with it, if there’s any justice.”, Vader: “There is no justice, only power.". He can't control SK's restorative rate, and he intends to test his abilities. “ Lol. Non canon events are not representative of anything in continuity because they are not apart of it. Determined to prove him wrong, Starkiller didn’t waste time announcing his intentions. I don't see how one could think the amount of time Vader gave Starkiller between defeating his clones and attacking him would have been enough for him to recover his energies, especially since Vader was specifically trying to weaken Starkiller beforehand. It was the Prophets’ suggestion to Vader. It ground out of the triangular grille covering Vader’s mouth and fell on Starkiller’s ears like dust. However, Galen (and SK) have repeatedly shown that they are able to recover their reserves pretty damn quickly when they need to: Starkiller’s throat worked. Sorry to be a pain. “The Force gives me all I need.” “The Force?” The hint of praise turned to warning, as it did so often. Lol. Force attacks are a standard part of dueling for force users. Vader not using TK on the Maul doppelganger when his life was in danger is not indicative of anything considering there have been numerous occasions where he's shown little to no regard for his own life, such as when he allowed "The Force" to decide whether he lived or died when he collapsed a cathedral on himself. And when Vader forced Starkiller onto his back foot and raised his lightsaber to strike him down, Starkiller fired a lightning blast into the side of Vader's armor that was so concentrated, even the new insulation couldn't absorb it. There's no getting around this. So, obviously, it’s a reiteration of Maul, with his same skills. Nothing's been determined as to what we are actually seeing, just that Vader and Maul have a pretty cool battle." Will respond later but interesting post all around. The resulting individual had gold eyes and his skin was silver with black tattoos. Seems pretty close to me. As we've done this song and dance before, I feel it's only fair to let you know I'm going to post the same points that you failed to respond to in the other thread. They circled the top of the cloning tower, striking and assessing, then striking again. @killbilly:"He maintained a defensive pose, breathing rhythmically and deeply, regaining his strength. Sarcasm isn't a becoming trait, nor is it necessary here: Vader made no move to defend himself when Starkiller reached the very top of the cloning tower. SK has more destructive capabilities than Dooku but less mastery, and given his performance against TFU/TFU 2 Vader I'd say he can hold his own in sabers. So no; SK having a minute to regain some of his strength and return to his usual fighting levels - given that his feats with the Salvation and ISD are not TK level feats he can readily replicate in the middle of combat - instead of his "full" (AKA his ISD grounding levels of power that he only achieves through intense concentration) is not at all out there. Galen Marek is stated to be covered with lightsaber wounds from his duels with Vader: Behind his eyelids he pictured again the clean, cleansing heat of the lightsaber. No. You are desperately trying to defend Vader for your pupil Galen benefit, but that’s it: ANH Vader is a sub-TPM Maul duelist, Force or not. I was talking about the acolytes implication of Vader's superiority to them and the doppleganger as a Force user.”. 2 wins (100%) Revan Unknown: 503 K: Lord Starkiller Galen Marek: 286 K: team class: 788 K: 0 wins (0%) Darth Maul Maul: Savage Opress: team class: 0: Battle options. He may have defeated Vader before, but Vader had learned from that mistake. And you've provided no evidence to suggest that even a full minute of concentrated restoration would bring him back to "his usual fighting levels.". In a sense, they were still playing out the first time they had faced each other in combat. This will be absolutely my last comment to you. - Darth Maul, Journal. Talk about forgetting. The stink cleared his head. 33 comments 96% Upvoted There's no reason to assume it would take him that long to reach Vader and there's also no reason to assume that Starkiller is "regaining his strength" during this period since he's actively using the Force in order to pursue Vader and would likely be directing it towards other things such as maintaining his passive defenses and trying to sense and enhance his awareness of his surroundings in order to ensure he's not caught off guard by another of Vader's tricks. However at the end of Force Unleashed 1, Starkiller was able to go toe to toe with Sidious. “Why me?” he asked the silent cloning tower. The only emotion he would give in to was love. Starkiller went into a fighting trance, stabbing and sweeping complex arcs through the air. He didn't. Mod intervention would be welcomed at this point given the never-ending flow of verbal diarrhea that you choose to deposit onto these forums. Or he's concerned for Juno's safety and prioritizes her above himself... Nah, that'd make too much sense. As a final part of his trial, Galen is confronted by a mysterious Sith Warrior clad in a sinister armor. From the very start of TFUII Starkiller is kept in isolation with no food or water for weeks on end and then we see him fighting pretty much nonstop until it reaches the point where he's shaking with exhaustion. Then, he defeated him and put him on his ass. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts and considering that Vader wasn't able to prevent a weakened Starkiller at the start of TFUII. The author is only clarifying that the prophets meant Vader could use the force instead that sabers. @richard96: Have school from 2-7 ( two online classes/zoom meetings back to back ). So Vader has lost a lot of the power of MFV (who's almost equal to Sidious when unhindered) and then the potential to grow beyond that. The context of the story presented in the comic and the creator of the comic itself make it clear that the fight was not representative of two opposing sides fighting on equal footing to the best of their abilities. He isn’t saying Vader would have destroyed them for sure if he used the force. Maul then taunts Vader, telling him to come at him. It's heavily implied ANH Vader stood a good chance at defeating Maul and the Prophets with the Force.”. If Vader's blow had landed anywhere else, Maul wouldn't have had a saber to use. Als Starkiller macht sich Galen auf, die verbleibenden Jedi-Ritter im Auftrag von Darth Vader zu ermorden. Resurrection was published just to show what would have happened if Maul and Vader fought, and Maul won. All the duels, all the tests, all the torturous mind games, had been to ensure his survival against every opponent—bar one. I'm going to need evidence that he wasn't simply conserving his energy. Instead, he toyed with a soldier blaster to hit Maul. In any case, in sabers Vader proved himself to be below Maul. No comments in the last 24 month. I wouldn't say so personally, they were fighting evenly for the most part until a moment in the fight which should have spelled Vader's victory actually allowed the Maul doppelganger to drastically change up his style and catch Vader off guard. Lol. Re: Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) on February 24th 2020, 8:24 am Azronger wrote: The intent of my non-canon fanfiction where Vader stomps Revan was to show how a fight between those two would go. This is Starkiller at the end of the game when (presumably) he's at his strongest. Dooku, a Force user aware of his own power and able to directly sense Yoda, believed to be better than him. In diesem Moment zerstört die Rogue Shadow einen Teil der Kuppel, um die Rebellen aufz… To be honest, I don't blame Billy for getting annoyed. The text highlighted in red is of course the issue of VADER allowing them to carry out their scheme which the acolytes grant is an issue but one they use reasoning ( the green text ) to convince him goes against his best interests. Nothing certain, nothing definitive. I don't have to defend somebody from something that isn't true. His mad lust of power.". Starkiller: The Creator of the Rebellion. :/, Vader is noted to be putting very little effort into their fight at this point. First, there's zero indication he was weakened. Then they manipulate him into fighting Maul in sabers rather than exploiting the Force (note that he never tries to use the Force offensively bar one time to force Maul to move the battlefield). indeed it is confirmed he cannot because he didn’t use the force when he was in absolute danger, nor he used it to show Maul “what the Dark Side could do”. Except the part where the fatigue is related to his ability to draw on the Force and not his physical state or adrenaline levels... His exhaustion manifests as a physical trait in how the "tips of his lightsabers shook". Starkiller stared up at his former Master. during this period since he's actively using the Force in order to pursue Vader and would likely be directing it towards other things such as maintaining his passive defenses and trying to sense and enhance his awareness of his surroundings in order to ensure he's not caught off guard. I would say it's a very liberal estimate since it's based on several unconfirmed assumptions. Poor Galen would be so lowered! See more ideas about darth starkiller, star wars art, star wars sith. Maul proved himself to be fairly better than Vader in that fight. The son of a fugitive Jedi, Marek is kidnapped, raised, and apprenticed by Darth Vader after the death of his father at Vader's hands. Darth Starkiller, formerly Galen Marek, was a Human male Sith Lord who served under the Galactic Empire and Emperor Palpatine. It was a fluke, if it hadn't occurred, Vader would have been the victor.”. @wolfrazer: I referred to quotes like this, "We've actually never seen real Jedi at work, we've only seen crippled half-droid half-men and young boys that have learned from these old people. Didn't Vader only grow more powerful throughout the timeline? A normal human would be at Maul's mercy. @breakofdawn: Those are likely factors that allowed Maul to capitalize on Vader's reduced mobility, absolutely. @richard96: Lol. Yet he had already defeated the other subjects by that point... Why would struggling to accomplish a feat "conserve energy?". There's no indication the exchange you posted between Galen and Vader lasted a minute. “I never commented on that either way as it's irrelevant to me. As mentioned, the comic was conceived as a a cool fight between two popular Star Wars villains in order to sell comics with both the author of the comic and the events within the comic itself depicting the encounter as one that was anything but a match taking place on even ground. SK blankly stares up at his master. The comment was likely just a ploy to get Maul to focus on something else while he activated the dead troopers blasters. He'd want to see who was worthier to serve him, and the only way to test that would be to fight SK at something resembling his full capabilities. Now Amped TPM Kenobi > Vader? There were no circumstances, only Maul’s skill against Vader’s. The weeks of training and isolation he had endured made that exceedingly clear. Lets Help Spread The Word To The Entire World! I encourage you to continue doing so for that reason, actually. Who will win in a fight between Team Lord Starkiller and Team Darth Caedus? Unlike Vader allowing Starkiller to regain a significant portion of his strength before facing him. Forever at war with one’s own Master? Starkiller got stalemated by TFU II Vader, a weaker version of one who lost to TPM Maul. “ That's why I pointed out the extreme lengths they went to acquire Vader's agreement before allowing the fight to take place. See All - Best Selling. Lol. It corroborates his later statements about MFV: "You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. He obviously did not think this extended to manipulation of the environment, or else didn't care. Join the dark side and together they’re going to overthrow the Emperor, which is the thematic devices used through the whole movies in terms of the Sith, which is Sith Lords are usually no more than two because if there are three, then two of them will gang up on one to try to become the dominate Sith. I am not at my best.". Here's where you apply the double standard of calling out such a view as ridiculous while arguing shit like TPM Kenobi > Vader. Starkiller swung his lightsaber and hit maul in the shoulder that sent him flying, starkiller jumped and was about stab him, then suddenly maul force pushed starkiller into a … He knew the measure of his former apprentice now. I've never tagged you simply for the pleasure of your conversation and I never will because interacting with you is one of the most pointless and mind numbing experiences available to somebody in this life.”. He literally set up multiple physical and psychological traps traps prior to this point in order to test and weaken Starkiller. :P”. Starkiller vs Maul. Despite all this, Vader still fights evenly with him while allowing the doppelganger to lead him into less than ideal positioning with the fight ending in what would have been a victory for Vader if not for a fluke. Vader vs Maul, let’s see what happens. Your arbitrary interpretation is totally disingenuous and confirmed by nothing. Indeed, he confirmed Maul was brought back to fight Vader. Unfortunately, it tends to annoy me when people blatantly ignore evidence in order to argue their desired outcome. The PROXY droids were activating. Nothing certain. It was so dry he could barely talk at all. We use supplementary material that come solely from the novelizations all the time. Boards ; Star Wars; Starkiller = Darth Maul(Clone Wars spoilers) User Info: Grischnak. darth maul began slicing at starkiller, all the attacks being countered he then pointed his lightsaber at maul. He remembered: “How long this time?” “Thirteen days. He's noted to be regaining his strength in general even before Vader emerges and before the fight begins. He would have used the Force on Maul, at least to get some pause, if he could. The text highlighted in red is of course the issue of VADER allowing them to carry out their scheme which the acolytes grant is an issue but one they use reasoning ( the green text ) to convince him goes against his best interests.”. “You never wanted this. As he does so, SK begins to theorise as to why Vader is so interested in him, during which he proceeds to monologue for half a page: All the duels, all the tests, all the torturous mind games, had been to ensure his survival against every opponent—bar one. I don't believe anyone brought up AotC Anakin in reference to this quote specifically. Have to admit, it's been a few years since I've played the game. Only an in universe opinion. Only an in universe opinion. This is the maul that killed anoon banderas. ", It has slowed me down somewhat. @killbilly Lol no worries, I haven't started yet. Actually, ANH Vader being a sub-TPM Maul duelist thanks to Resurrection is a very clear and established fact among almost every serious debater. Upon reaching the top of the tower, SK is either a complete moron or doesn't believe himself to be drastically weakened by this point, as he immediately goes to engage Vader despite Vader doing absolutely nothing to oppose him: Vader made no move to defend himself when Starkiller reached the very top of the cloning tower. Because certain influential people in the community have a vendetta against the character. So Vader has lost a lot of the power of MFV (who's almost equal to Sidious when unhindered) and then the potential to grow beyond that. As most know, Darth Maul was the apprentice of the Emperor Palpatin until he was killed in battle fighting Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon Jinn.As for Starkiller, he was the Apprentice of Darth Vader, however Starkiller eventually betrayed his master to join the Rebels and fight the Empire. “Thirteen days. Lol. Just a copy paste since you're not worth wasting time on. He outright states he's striking to prove his master wrong, not to defend or get to Juno. I mean that Vader would have surely used the force on Maul when he was disarmed and on his ass at the end of the fight, if he could. You can’t have. Slowly, incredulously, he began to believe that it was over. Starkiller circled him and said" i have heard stories, that you were still alive Maul", starkiller clashed his lighsaber against maul's blade. Nothing in this quote makes him sub ROTS Anakin, even. Nor prohibited. This is Starkiller at the end of the game when (presumably) he's at his strongest. Dooku, a Force user aware of his own power and able to directly sense Yoda, believed to be better than him. Change members Create variation Info No Variations. He was fighting Kenobi in his better moment... Maul was dancing around Vader, and he grazed Vader's thigh. Als Marek zusammen mit Rahm Kota, Bail Organa und Juno Eclipse Vader und den Imperator, in dessen Thronsaal angriffen, konfrontierte Marek Vader, den er im Kampf töten konnte. Asking you not to put up some baseless and arbitrary arguments to keep together your Galen wank is too much. No need to be fancy, just an overview. Also of course Luke has more potential, that's a given who he is. They usually are which is why I've gone out of my way to highlight the acolytes making efforts to get Vader to agree not to simply dispose of them and the Maul doppleganger with the Force. There are much quotes attesting this. I also don't see why Vader refusing to use the Force even when he was in danger is relevant. Again, you fail to provide any actual context for the garbage that you're spewing. Obviously Vader is capable of doing far more than simply clicking the triggers on some guns if he wanted to give a "demonstration." Nor prohibited. His armor seemed to have improved, too; it was less vulnerable to lightning than it had been just days before. That being the case, I don't necessarily agree with your estimate for how long it took Galen to have these thoughts paired with the dialogue. The Jedi has an advantage. “ Maul landed some kicks and shallow blows on Vader but nothing debilitating. SK has a much better chance at winning this than I originally thought. What are you basing these "minute" long guestimates on? “ The text highlighted in blue is the issue of the Emperor allowing them to carry out their scheme that Vader brings up and the acolyte's subsequent justification. Ground out of the environment, or else did n't Vader only grow more starkiller vs darth maul! Tpm Kenobi > Vader if he used the Force on Maul, at least to get some pause if. But Vader had learned from that mistake community have a pretty cool battle. alongside Obi Wan a years. You basing these `` minute '' long guestimates on defeated the other subjects by that point... Why struggling. 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