I am no means advertising suntour, I am just saying that even a four bar suspension can ride better with the right shock installed. If you’re considering an Ellsworth, it’s also worth paying attention to their geometry; thus far, it doesn’t look like they’re jumping on the “longer is better” bandwagon. With lots of XC single track, fire roads, some family rides, etc. The shock is compressed via a series of links and pivots. It has a reasonably firm pedaling platform at the cost of sucking up those smaller bumps along the trail. There are a few other companies that are building “dual link” designs that are similar to the DW link and VPP bikes. Can you kindly shed some light on the pros and cons of these two? Like I mentioned before, a good shock can make a mediocre design feel pretty good. Which is why I’m starting to put together a post series dedicated specifically to suspension types. I long to try a trek ABP, full floater though or maybe commencal’s older FS design and see if there’s a remakably difference. Thanks. I always enjoy reading about suspension design. Thanks again!! I was hoping to shorten the decision process by choosing 2 or 3 different suspension designs/brands based on sound physics principles and going by ride feel after narrowing down my choices. Ce type de suspension est surtout utilisée pour les versions sportives de berlines traction ayant à la base une suspension de type pseudo-MacPherson. Hardtail: a mountain bike with suspension shocks on the front fork, but not the rear. Hahahaha! Plus, the advent of state of the art shocks today, even single pivots, the most basic in suspension design for bikes can ride amazingly well and especially when the geometry is spot on among other things. Take a look at Tom Collier’s review of the Avalanche Chubie rear shock on his Santa Cruz Nomad; the shock substantially transformed how that bike rode, and obviously didn’t involve any changing of the frame design. The performance jump from a $500 bike to a $2000 bike is huge. Is there a consensus yet on the best climbing dual suspension setup? The type of suspension on any given car is thus determined by the arrangement of the axle; whether it allows for the independent movement of the individual wheels or binds the wheels to the axle. Where does the Yeti Switch Infinity suspension fall in these categories? A hardtail is not really a type of mountain biking. But the same can be said for DH bikes – almost all of the suspension designs have found their way onto world cup podiums at some point or another. High Single Pivot (example, Santa Cruz Heckler). Pros: It has the good bump compliance of the linkage driven single pivot, but it does much better under braking. Retrouvez tous les avis et tests Bike Suspension Types sur Aliexpress France ! These are more affordable, which for your budget, will allow you to purchase a bike with better components that are lighter. I know its like comparing apples to oranges but the bottomline is, there’s no suspension design that works best for each facet of mountain biking. Thanks!! The Jedi is a very unique bike in all the ways you mentioned, especially radical rearward wheel path. Specialized makes use of a Horst-link design with FSR, and Norco uses it for their ART suspension. The amount of suspension travel available has increased over time. It bears some similarities to a high single pivot bike; the rear wheel basically travels in an arc around the main pivot location above the bottom bracket. Bike brakes cantilever. … Egalement appelé « mini moto », « moto de poche » ou encore « moto miniature », un pocket bike désigne une moto à taille plus réduite que celle que'on connaît habituellement. Heh. Like I mentioned above, all of the current Canfield bikes are generally based around a dual link design that’s vaguely similar to a DW link in terms of layout (2 links, both rotating in the same direction). So, that being said, here are the broad generalizations that I’d say about those bikes (and, these being broad generalizations, I’m sure there are plenty of people who might disagree). This will give the Knolly a different rate curve than other FSR bikes. Mono Shock Absorbers: … When you’re comparing two bikes with similar geometry, wheel sizes, and travel, the real world differences at race pace are probably going to be measured in fractions of a second. Pros: It does a good job of absorbing large bumps; no patents on the design (and therefore less expensive to build). All that said, the suspension tune on all three of these bikes is particularly critical, and a good tune can minimize the downsides (and maximize the upsides). That’s not even getting into shock tunes, leverage ratios, frame stiffness, wear on the bearings, wear on the shock / DU bushings, and any number of other factors that frame designers (hopefully) are taking into consideration. Cane Creek 7. Bike Frame Types, Demystified December 27, 2019 Bikes Gazelle CityZen. Thanks for the excellent article and Q&A. This type of damping controls the rate and speed at which the suspension returns to its full length after having been compressed. they are essentially a four bar right? Suspension Design – Frames / Rear Suspension. I agree that it was unique yet short lived. All i can say is that, both bikes handled suspension wise remarkably well. The reviews seem to be pretty good but I know a lot of technology goes into proper frame design. Just from looking at the Balance and speculating about its suspension movement, I’d guess that it doesn’t have nearly as much rearward movement in the rear end as the Jedi. Trek’s design is similar to the Split Pivot design that is patented by Dave Weagle (of DW-link fame). Legs are indeed very good suspension, but they don’t work quite so well on some of the smaller bumps. Chercher moto. Someday, I can get my hands on an Ibis mojo, my dream bike and I would be very happy but sometimes, I keep asking myself, Is it really worth it? The KS link drives the shock directly with the rear triangle, whereas the DW link bikes generally drive the shock with the upper linkage arm. In reality, no such technology exists. You can talk to ten different engineers and get ten different answers about which designs are best for the various disciplines of the sport. MRP 4. About Us | All of the current full suspension Canfields use some variation of a 2 link design, which is generally similar to a DW link or Giant Maestro. But the location of the pivots and the manner in which the frame pushes on the rear shock are the subject of plenty of debate. The bike is an AM bike by the way. Most suspension forks are in the … i have an old single pivot trek bruiser 3, and i cant seem to find a suitable rear shock for it..can you give me some advice on what kind of rear shock should i put in it?..most rear shock that i put doesn’t seem to work,even if it has a 600lbs/in of coil in it. Platforms that are great in one area will suffer in another, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a design that feels perfect for your individual needs. This is one reason that a few companies continue to play with gear boxes on bikes, but those options have yet to really catch on (they’re expensive, somewhat unreliable, and they tend to be heavy). opinions ;). It should also be noted that the newer GT’s use a couple different designs (the Fury has a different pivot layout than the Force and Sensor). Perhaps one of the best examples of a linkage-driven single pivot design in action is the Kona Process. All forms of suspension, from the simple Single-pivot used by Orange bikes, Yeti’s innovative Switch Infinity or the wild R3ACT platform used by Marin and Polygon, share the same purpose – to allow the sprung mass (rider and most parts of the bike) to move forwards while keeping the wheel tracking over uneven ground. I stick to mostly green and blue trails for most of my riding. Types of motorcycle suspension: Front suspension: - Telescopic suspension. If I was going to spend all day pedaling uphill on a ~6″ travel bike, these three bikes would be high on my list of contenders. When it comes to mountain bike suspension designs, it might appear things are hopelessly complicated. Granted I just rode around the sidewalks and played around on the curbs and stuff but all the bikes felt like they were bending in at the bb when I stood up and bounced my weight on them and also pedaling hard. Of course, it all varies from bike to bike and the intended purpose, but purely in terms of suspension design, there’s definitely some common ground there. Livraison rapide Produits de qualité à petits prix Aliexpress : Achetez malin, vivez mieux Hopefully that answers some of your questions, but feel free to post any follow ups you might have. I have a 2000 GT i-Drive and it has held up great all this time. I know that the best way for me to decide which bike to get for enduro purposes will be to try them all. The ultimate guide to mountain bike rear suspension systems. And I wouldn’t over think it too much; there are lots of really good bikes out there, and all things considered, the differences between them are relatively minor. My replacement is not exactly new either but the suspension design is remarkably different. As terrain offers more roadblocks and challenges the amount of pressure on rear suspension will increase swiftly. im starting to dig your website. It would be interesting if you could ride3-4 bikes with the suspension somehow covered, like a blindfold test,then choose one and see if it’s the design you thought it was. Knolly obviously uses some additional linkage to actuate the shock, which (as far as I can tell) is how they avoid infringing on the FSR patent. (2) The less that pedaling forces affect suspension, the better. So, long story short, suspension design and the location of the pivots certainly matters, and my impression (having not really ridden an Ellsworth) is that their design works very well in some applications. That is except for the yeti. Hahahahahaha! If you haven’t ridden any of them and/or don’t have any clear preferences as to DW vs VPP bikes, I’d probably suggest making your decision based on other factors (in rough order: 1) fit; 2) parts spec; 3) price; 4) weight). This potentially gives the DW link a bit more control over the leverage ratio on the shock, but the KS link may be able to produce a stiffer frame by keeping their linkages especially short. One reason it’s impossible is that bike drivetrains have gears, which means that the forces exerted on the suspension by the chain come in at varying angles, depending on what gear you’re in. So for now, at least, it seems that the upright fork advocates are winning. The front wheel – suspension forks 2. In an ideal world, suspension would smoothly absorb all bumps, without being affected by drivetrain forces or braking. On most serious mountain bikes you’ll find suspension front and rear unless it’s a … Thanks for this great thread, so much information! The pros and cons of these designs are potentially similar to the DW link and VPP bikes, but it really comes down to exactly how the linkages are designed on each specific bike. Ellsworth pushes their ICT (Instant Center Tracking) pretty hard, but most good full suspension designs pay close attention to the bike’s instant center. At least for me, that makes it a lot easier to start wrapping your head around how certain suspension designs actually compare, and then you can use that information to assess other bikes that you haven’t ridden yet. Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated. I noticed this feeling in my brief time on the Tracer, and I’ve noticed it on the older Nomad. La capacité du cylindre est facultative. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. At the moment, I love the floating shock design. While most full suspension bikes these days are some variation of a 4-bar design, the Felts are actually a 6-bar design. At its heart, the Diamondback knucklebox design is a linkage driven single pivot (like the Kona pictured in the article). Common Full Suspension Bike Types. There are numerous types of mountain bike including long-travel dual suspension bikes for downhill racing; hardtails with suspension forks for general trail riding; fat bikes with low-pressure, super-wide tyres; go-anywhere dual suspension trail bikes and short-travel bikes for mass-start cross country races. 2020-2021 Blister Winter Buyer's Guide — Print Edition. It also has a link that connects into the shock, but that link doesn’t directly impact the path that the wheel travels – it’s there to give the desired leverage ratio on the shock and to stiffen up the frame. That difference really just come down to what the company is trying to achieve with their leverage ratios for each bike. Single pivot designs are common among entry-level bikes for a number of reasons. Choosing the right fork for your mountain bike can be tricky, especially given the variety of choice. The Jeffsy uses this same linkage layout, but the Tues drives the shock off of the swing link. I haven’t spent a ton of time on any of those bikes, but of the three, I’ve spent the least time on the Nomad. I briefly road their Auron fork and, while it wasn’t quite as good as some of the higher priced offerings, it definitely held its own. Cons: The suspension gives noticeable feedback in the pedals; not great under braking. This has got … So, long story short, they’re all really nice bikes. Full suspension is any bike with … Ohlins 5. Again this is not really a mountain bike discipline, but it’s worth including. Similarly a good rear shock can make a great design feel fantastic (and a bad shock can make it feel horrible). But with the latest from suntour, I hardly even set the lockout when climbing steep singletrack, rocks, and roots since it smooth and works very well. Livraison rapide Produits de qualité à petits prix Aliexpress : Achetez malin, vivez mieux But to get at your question, I think the “Joe’s Corner” blog on the Santa Cruz site has some good information: http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en/us/joes-corner, Also, here’s a site that has graphs of various suspension traits for a ton of bikes, and if you can read spanish (or want to deal with google translate), there’s some discussion: http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/. This is sometimes known as a “faux bar” design because while it utilizes a system of linkages like a traditional four-bar design, there is still just a single pivot point. (and which bike to get) Jump to Latest Follow ... a Santa Cruz Chameleon hardtail for a couple years now and will be passing that bike onto my son and moving onto a full suspension bike. A high quality shock from fox or rockshox can improve my ride for less. My take is that 1) the design seems to pedal reasonably well while still being pretty active over small bumps, 2) All those pivots make it a bit of challenge to keep the frame weight down, and 3) all those pivots and links also make it a bit more challenging to keep the rear end stiff. For a lot of customers, trailer suspension is often something not always thought about. Saddle – seat post with an in built shock absorber 4. Thanks for the good article to help me as a consumer be informed with my next purchase. There are a few other considerations such as weight distribution, but in this broader discussion, those considerations are secondary to the three basic suspension goals. The key to finding that bike? I guess what I really want to know is this: I realize that all suspension designs want the same things… as per your article “how to make a suspension system that (1) absorbs bumps, (2) isn’t affected by braking, and (3) lets you pedal uphill without wanting to kill yourself?”. Older models did not. Trailer suspension – 4 different types.. but which one??!! Very thorough. A single pivot that is usually a few inches above the bottom bracket (often lined up with the outer edge of the largest chainring). I think the patent on the FSR is now expired, so companies can produce FSR-type designs. Singletracks may receive compensation for purchases made through affiliate links in this article. Santa Cruz has a pretty good explanation of instant centers here: http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en/us/news/346. I haven’t ridden any BMC’s, but based on the basic linkage layout and the numbers on the suspension kinematics, I’d expect them to ride somewhat similar to a DW link bike. The Mach 6 is a DW link, so to some extent it’s the odd one out. A primary barrel and a slider … On the other hand, there are also quite a few people that 1) found the frames to be prone to breaking, 2) found the frames to be flexy, 3) found that Ellsworth’s customer service was less than spectacular, and/or 4) found that Ellsworth’s somewhat over the top marketing spiel and blatant bashing of other designs to be lacking tact. A full-suspension bike is a bike that has both front and rear suspension. Trek puts its “ABP” design on most of its full suspension bikes. I do still spend a lot of time on my hardtail though! Singletracks Merch | Let us not forget that rear shock technology has gotten better through the years to the point that almost any suspension design has offers a solid ride due to the quality of the rear shock. I want to understand more so I can decide which bike to get. Terms | Privacy. I haven’t spent much time on the Canfield full suspension bikes, so I can’t really comment on how they ride. Just to throw out another brand that hasn’t come up yet, how does the YT Capra’s suspension design compare? All of those pivots are within an inch or two of each other, and all of those bikes share some similarities in linkage design, but they’re all going to ride differently. I prefer the feel of my old bikes suspension over the 3 new bikes that were “cheaper” but the yeti was familiar feeling and had all the new stuff like modern geo, disc brakes, new tire size etc… was the iDrive ahead of its time or what? Log out of those forums, put away your computer, and ride! I’ve only had a very brief parking lot test of the new Nomad, which isn’t really enough to draw any conclusions, but that feeling seemed less noticeable in the couple of minutes I was aboard the bike, at least compared to the Tracer. I hear you; there’s so many designs out there that look interesting, but it’s hard to find a way to swing a leg over more than a small fraction of the options. Push chalky9 . There simply no such thing as that. Keep it up! What about Ellsworth’s suspension? Linkage forks, while offering a few benefits, have pretty much gone the way of the Dodo. So, at it’s heart, it’s pretty similar to that linkage driven single pivot on the Kona Satori, but the configuration of the linkage is obviously quite different, and the DHR gets the job done with fewer links. High Pivot Hijinks with the Deviate Highlander Trail Bike [In... Fox Live Valve is an Electronically Controlled Suspension System for... Watch: Pivot Firebird 29 Enduro Bike, Long Term Review. Despite all the jargon and proprietary designs on the market today, there are really just three basic suspension types to understand. I guess the take away point is really that there are a ton of variables at play when it comes to talking about rear suspension. Noah… Thank you again for your reply. The rear axle is on the chainstay, meaning that, as the suspension compresses, the rear wheel travels in a circular arc around a pivot location that’s usually just behind the bottom bracket. Bottom line: a linkage-driven single pivot design results in the same wheel path as a single pivot, but looks like a four-bar. I could be just used to riding it all these years, but it felt better with the old spring shock and mechanical Judy c fork. Just chiming in to say I learned more about suspension from this article and the comments by Noah than from several sites I have been to. The Banshee KS link bears a little more similarity to a DW link in terms of pivot layout, but they’re not necessarily going to ride the same due to the differences in leverage ratios that each design produces on the shock. Both the Niner CVA and the BMC APS are, at their heart, dual link bikes with co-rotating links (meaning they move parallel to each other). Rear suspension is only seen in mountain bikes which offers dual, both front and rear suspension. As a result, they can make suspension softer at the beginning of the stroke for small bump sensitivity and then firmer toward the end of its travel. As far as I can tell, it’s not possible to make a suspension that isolates those forces in all gears. - Gas filled or Nitrox charged shock absorber. It is just any bike that only has front suspension. At the most basic level, rear suspension involves one or more pivots that (1) allow the rear wheel to move up and down, and (2) push on a rear shock. I’ve only ridden a small handful of these bikes over the years, so any blanket statements I make about how the suspension platform performs is really just a first impression. How about Mongoose’s freedrive and GT’s new I-drive (basically the same as the freedrive) I’ve always wabted to try those and comoare them to my La pierre’s FSR. provided of course the bike geo among other things are spot on. There is so much to cover in terms of mountain bike suspension types, and it’s just too much to cover in one post. The disadvantage of a single pivot design is a linear leverage ratio, meaning that if X amount of pressure results in Y amount of suspension compression, 2X will result in 2Y. Livraison rapide et économies garanties en selle - tige de selle ! From talking to people that have spent some time on a Jedi, it also sounds like the rearward axle path takes a bit of getting used to in hard corners – as the bike compresses into the corner, the rear end gets significantly longer, which might feel weird to someone coming off of a bike that keeps the rear end relatively short throughout its travel. Bike Shock Tige de selle Absorption Suspension 650Lbs ressort Tube de vélos Seat Type Description de Facile à installer et facile à démonter une absorption importante de choc après l'installation du poids abordable: environ 20-150kg Le corps principal est en acier à ressort en alliage, qui a une grande ténacité, résistance à l'usure et pas facile de se déformer. Thanks in advance Noah. There is no holy grail; it’s all a matter of trade offs. As for the mountain cycle battery, I was actually referring to the zen 2, I thought it was the battery bike. Split pivot is a 4-bar design. While the exact traits are going to vary quite a bit from bike to bike, my experience has been that the Niners tend to pedal fairly efficiently, and have slightly better small bump sensitivity than some of the DW link bikes. The cannondale moto carbon however, it was a small and I fit a shorter stem, a wider bar so cockpit wise, I was comfortable. Santa Cruz’s VPP is a four-bar design that features links that turn in opposite directions, while in Giant’s Maestro system the links rotate in the same direction. I used to own a locally produced FS bike before that had the four bar configuration. In years past, some companies made linkage forks that, instead of using telescoping legs, operated via a series of pivots that actuated a small shock. Is it a linkage-driven single pivot? But the performance jump from a $2000 bike to a $3500 bike is less significant, and generally speaking, the higher the price tag goes the less significant the performance increases become. First, there’s no patent on the design, meaning brands don’t have to pay anyone royalties to us… With a swingarm, basically two types of suspension are used: Twin shock absorbers: As the name suggests, it refers to two shock absorbers at the rear end of a motorcycle. Sometimes when people write these I think they assume everyone is an engineer or physicist. The Mongooses and many of the I-drives bear the most similarities to a high single pivot, but with some extra linkage to help out the pedaling. The low-step frame is a classic feature of Dutch bicycles. You can never build a good bike without compromises no matter how expensive it gets. A linkage-driven single pivot design allows designers to manipulate leverage ratios. En ajoutant un point de pivot entre le porte-moyeu et la jambe de force, les … Or maybe all of your descending is super steep and riddled with brake bumps so a suspension design that stays active under braking is important. Mountain Bike Deals, Copyright 2021 Blue Spruce Ventures LLC | Is this a matter of those bikes being around 2K and the yeti at 5K or is it their design? Hardtail bikes also have better handling than entry-level full-suspension bikes. Tout sur le pocket bike, le dirt bike, le pit bike, toutes ces motos miniature qui séduisent de plus en plus d’adeptes. Though the Epic technically features just a single pivot point, it has “flex zones” built into the stays that sort of allow the system to act like a four-bar design (see below). Like forks, most rear shock designs are fundamentally similar. Look at any of the top end XC bikes out there and you’ll see most of the designs represented. With a single pivot design, the rear axle pivots around a single point (shown in yellow) and the shock is attached between the rear axle and a part of the frame (usually the top tube or down tube). La liste n'est pas encore complète. Ballpark Tire and Suspension Inflation in One with the Topeak... Mountain Bike Deals to Make Winter Suck Less. That linkage does, however, serve an important role in actuating the shock – the shape and location of those links will determine what the leverage ratio on the shock is at any given point in the shock’s travel. If you can make it happen, something like outerbike (http://www.outerbike.com/) is a great option to try a lot of different bikes. This means that the front wheel will deflect much more easily because the fork has a more difficult time holding the wheel straight. A full-suspension bike is a bike that involves front and rear suspension. But unfortunately, I don’t have the privilege to try them all out mostly because not many shops in my area have demo units. (3) Braking shouldn’t affect the suspension, either. But I’d also be hesitant to declare the design wholely better than a horst link just because different bikes are designed for different purposes. How does it work? An in-depth explanation of each concept would get quite long, but here’s a quick rundown of what’s out there and the pros and cons of each. IMBA Epics | Retrouvez toutes les pièces pour l'entretien des fourches et les accessoires. Thanks. Each suspension design is great, but, fit, comfort, the stiffness of the bike at least for me matters the most in the end. These days, however, there are a relatively small number of designs that make up the vast majority of the market. On many of the VPP bikes I’ve ridden, there’s a fairly distinct platform where the suspension seems to stiffen up. How about the KS link on a Banshee? The basic pivot layout is similar to a horst / fsr link; there’s a pivot on the chainstay just in front of and below the rear axle, and there’s a rocker arm that actuates the shock. Cars typically have different suspension systems for the front and rear axles with each axle providing mounting for two wheels on opposite ends. Whether it’s worth it really comes down to your individual situation and preferences. Company   Conversely, a firmer initiation will make pedaling more efficient and suit aggressive riding, but it won’t provide the same plush feel on small bumps. Arguments about which design is better fill hundreds of pages of internet chat rooms, but of the two major fork manufacturers (Rockshox and Fox), Rockshox makes only one inverted fork (the XC-oriented RS-1) and Fox makes only upright forks. I am currently looking for my first full suspension, mid travel bike in the 3k range, and truly appreciated this page. Livraison en 48 H, gratuite dès 30€ d'achat. I guess the short answer is: no. The amount of suspension on a full suspension bike can differ greatly depending on the type of riding that you are doing. But the ride was never perfect. Paid $100 for it. Sorry for my complex questions. BOS 8. I am currently using the latest Epicon RC rear shocks available from suntour and no dont shrugg just yet, hehe It actually offer fantastic small bump compliance for the money paid and considering that it offered compression adjust is another plus. As a result, they can reach an entry-level price point that would be out of reach with some of the suspension platforms below. The YT Capra is based around a Horst link / FSR link – the same as any Specialized. Geometry, weight, and componentry, and a few other factors all play as big (if not bigger) a factor as the location of the pivots. And I wouldn’t over think it too much; there are lots of really good bikes out there, and all things considered, the differences between them are relatively minor.”, ” it’s more to say that you’ll be fastest and have the most fun on the bike you like best, which isn’t necessarily the bike that has the “perfect” design.”. Also keep in mind that each design can be tweaked to fit the needs of whatever discipline it’s being designed for. The Battery is somewhat unique in that it’s a slopestyle bike with really short geometry, but as far as the suspension design goes, it’s pretty straight forward. There isn’t any design (at least none that I’ve found) that does a perfect job at absorbing bumps of all shapes and sizes while still remaining fully active under braking and that isn’t affected by pedaling forces in any gear. There’s a reason Kona doesn’t make these anymore. The GT and Mongoose systems are somewhat unique, although they bear some vague similarities to other designs that have existed in the past.